Kassu winnings removed

[Jimials]

On 26th January I used a first deposit code on Kassu of £300 and got a £300 bonus. I lost my initial £300 and started using the bonus funds. I played a variety of games all playing £5 a spin as I know of the T+C's that state on their site it is the max £/spin. I went down to roughly £200 and started playing jammin jars on £4 a spin and managed to book a win of around £5,000 I then played some more games with no more than a max stake of £5. Once I had completed the wager I then played Rise of Olympus on £10 a spin for around 30 spins. I played my balance off to a round £6,000 and opted too cash out the money, via pay-pal which was my deposit method.
5 days went by and I had still not received the moneys in my pay-pal. So I contacted them and asked what was going on and what was taking so long. I was told my account was under review which I was OK with, however it was starting to take quite some time. 
After 10 days of still not receiving my cash out, I got an e-mail which read; 

Dear James,

This e-mail is being sent to you in order to inform you that your winnings have been removed due to a breach of the Bonus Terms and Conditions during your game play.

You placed 12 bets of 6 up to 68, which is not allowed when playing with bonus funds.

Please read our Bonus Terms & Conditions, specifically clause 10:
https://www.Kassu.com/termsandconditions/generalbonus

If you have any other questions or queries, please do not hesitate to contact us via live chat, email or phone.

Best Regards,

Kassu Payments Team

I got straight onto live chat and spoke too a VIP representative who then had to go through all of my transactions and found this; 

    Shannon    05:53:12 pm    
 
Jimials, I can see you have made a few bets of 9.52 on the game Book of Oz: Lock n Spin at 03/02/2020 09:17:53.

Now, this is a "respin" on the Book of Oz, no where in there T+C's does it say that I cannot do that, and I don't consider this too be a "spin" more of a "side bet". Having read through the T+C's of section 10 no where does it say that I cannot play Book of Oz or use the re spins, when you do re spin it does not question the re spin although playing with bonus funds, which surely it should do. 

This is section 10:
The Maximum individual stake that can be wagered whilst having an active bonus is:
Slots and Video Slots - £5 per bet.
Any other game - £30 per bet.
Failure to follow this may result in forfeiting any winnings at our absolute discretion.
You may find your Real Money and Bonus Balance(s) under the ‘My Account’ Tab.

Although they are claiming that this in breach of the T+C's, if I would have known I could not do this spin, then clearly I would not have done said spins. I had wagered almost £30,000 in around 5/6 hours all sticking too the £5 max bet, apart from these few. If I wanted to breach the T+C's I wouldn't have played around 5988 spins sticking too the T+C's.

I feel like really I have been scammed out of my winnings and they are just prolonging paying me.

What is your guys thoughts on this one?

[G__o__l__d__]

Technically they are in the right, though as re-spins are classed as spins , Same as gambling a win As you have spotted not in there T and C `s

You could try to take it Further with say Ask Gamblers or other known sites

But have seen this lose many times unfortunately 

[Jimials]

I should also add that there is no such transaction in my betting history, everything is £5 and below. It should surely show up in my transactions, if it’s had an effect. 
I can’t believe they are removing a £6,000 balance because of 12 spins, which is, at most 0.2% of the amount of spins I had done 

[apudekikker]

These Talmudic tricks are to be expected, I lost 2k in a similar fashion. Casino is still just criminal mafia business, don't let the bright colors and flashy lights fool you, you're still playing at Don Tony's Casino no matter what. MGA is incredibly compromised, you wouldn't even believe how corrupt (almost 100% bribed) but you're about to find out anyway.

[shana casaletto]

Nowhere in the t&cs does it say you can’t play book of oz nor does it say you can’t use the respins

this respin is a separate bet to a normal spin.

a spin is five or more reels spinning & a respin is just one reel

hope the helps getting your finds sorted 

[Jimials]

Update:

I have been sent a pdf document of all my transactions from when I have had bonus funds, The actual issue has been where I have been playing Millionaire Mystery Box, had a win after a spin, and gambled. The spins which they have claimed are on Book of Oz are a separate bonus which I have aquired from my free spins when depositing and have been used 8 days from when I cashed out, so in my eyes irrelevant of the £6,000 cash out. I have also been told by a cs agent that is the case too. I have added the transactions they are saying are a breach.  Here is a copy of my mail back too them;

 

Dear Kassu,

 

Looking at times and dates, the Book of Oz spins have nothing to do with the £6,000 withdrawal, these spins were done 1 week on from when the withdrawal was made, so in my eyes these are irrelevant of the cash out I had made. If my cash out had been processed in the allotted time that you give for a PayPal withdrawal, then this wouldn't have happened. However by 03/02/2020 I am already waiting 8 days for my withdrawal to have been accepted.

 

On Book of Oz, there is an option to re spin a single reel, out of 5, this is done once a spin is completed so not a full spin, it is an extra bet, once you have spun. This isn't shown anywhere in the terms and conditions that I can't do this. If that was the case then, of course, I wouldn't have even played that game. Furthermore as that option is easily available, without question of whether you are sure you would like to do the extra spin, of one reel, surely I should not be allowed too play that game. 

 

In regards too the play on Millionaire Mystery Box, I was spinning £5 per spin, as you can see throughout the whole game play. What you have called "bonus money bet's" were in fact winnings, that were then gambled, (by clicking the gamble button that appears once you have received a win, after your spin has completed) as clearly on this game, you cannot bet £68, the max bet for this game is £20 on your site. I have gone through the terms and conditions and have not been able too find anything that says I cannot gamble a win. Had this been made clear that this would have pushed my bets over £5, as you are claiming, then I would not have done so. I had a healthy balance of £5,366.39 when I started playing the game, which I would have been able to wager without the need of pressing the gamble button.

 

Too me, this is not a clear breach of your T+C's as these have, too my knowledge not been displayed. I feel that this is just a way for you not too pay out my winnings that I have rightfully wagered and earned whilst playing on your site. 

 

Awaiting your reply, or someone to answer the phone

 

Many Thanks

James Alsop

 

[Jimials]

An update for anyone who saw this!

I won the case and Kassu have 48 hours to pay back the £6,000 they took from me!

😁

[c0nfusedDOTA]

@Jimials I call bullshit since you clearly fucked up. 5£/spin is 5£/spin, of course they will act if you respin with an amount higher than so. Stop being so dumb...

[Jimials]

12 minutes ago, c0nfusedDOTA said:

@Jimials I call bullshit since you clearly fucked up. 5£/spin is 5£/spin, of course they will act if you respin with an amount higher than so. Stop being so dumb...

@c0nfusedDOTA

Stop being so dumb!? Why so rude? 

OK here is the proof to your claim of bullshit you massive cock womble

Customer Name: James Alsop

Operator Name: Kassu (Genesis)

Summary of Complaint

1. An online casino customer complains that he was refused a £6,000 withdrawal on the grounds that he had breached staking limits after depositing £300 and receiving a £300 bonus. He denies that to be the case and says all the bets he placed were £5 or lower as required by the bonus terms and conditions. Operator Response

2. The company have confirmed that they voided the customer’s winnings because he placed 13 bets varying from £10 to £68 when playing Millionaire Mystery Box. Those bets occurred when the customer used the game’s gamble feature. The company say that those bets count as a bet stake for bonus offers and is covered by their bonus terms and conditions which state ‘The Maximum individual stake that can be wagered while having an active bonus is: Slots and Video Slots - £5 per bet.’

3. The company have also supplied database records which show the customer’s gameplay. Panel Analysis

4. All bonuses offered by casino websites have terms and conditions attached to them and without them there would be no bonuses. The onus is on customers to read and understand those terms and conditions and to ensure that their wagering conforms to them.

5. Ideally operators would use software controls to prevent terms and conditions from being breached and the Panel have long advocated this but unfortunately neither of the UK regulatory agencies – the Gambling Commission and the Competition and Markets Authority – saw fit to implement such a requirement when issuing a revised set of standards for online gambling terms and conditions in early 2018.

6. As things stand therefore the entire onus is on the customer to ensure that they meet all of the terms and conditions attached to a bonus offer and in most cases the Panel have to rule that they are at fault if they fail to do so.

7. The issue here, however, is whether the offer terms and conditions make it clear that the stake risked in a gamble feature is treated as a separate bet for the purpose of the bonus terms and conditions rather than being another phase of the original bet.

8. The Panel appreciate why an operator would wish to prevent customers gambling sums in excess of the stake limit but both the legal principle of contra proferentem and the Consumer Rights Act 2015 place the onus on the party framing a contract to be precise in their wording of it. If they are not then the contract is settled on the interpretation most favourable to the other party.

9. In this case the Panel do not believe that the wording is clear as it would be quite reasonable for a customer to assume that the bet stake is the amount he placed initially, not the sum he subsequently gambled. It is also something which could be easily clarified by using words such as ‘The Maximum individual stake (including any sums risked when using a Gamble feature).’

10. The Panel therefore do not believe the operator can apply the term to stakes wagered when using the gamble feature. The Panel have also reviewed the customer’s gameplay and have determined that in any event the customer showed a net loss on those bets. Decision

11 The Panel adjudicate in favour of the customer.

[brickwyde]

Where did you submit the complaint to? What panel does this refer to?